Comments on Bring the Books: Summoning Plantinga's Help in Responding to My Own...

It did it again, but isn't doing this on other...

2011-12-29T05:05:53.293-06:00

It did it again, but isn't doing this on other sites. My name is Kyle Essary.

Josh, I'm the second comment above (but not an...

2011-12-29T05:05:06.045-06:00

Josh,
I'm the second comment above (but not any of the unknown comments that follow). I posted from my regular Google account, so have no idea why it's hiding my identity.

Thanks Adam, I'm considering buying a Kindle ...

2011-12-27T14:08:35.766-06:00

Thanks Adam,

I'm considering buying a Kindle but I wouldn't buy one unless it had that capability

Thanks again for answering that question

& have a blessed year

James

James, What you can do when you are reading on th...

2011-12-25T09:47:35.984-06:00

James,

What you can do when you are reading on the Kindle is highlight the text using the arrows and then finish the highlight by pressing the enter key. Later, if you plug your Kindle into your PC or Mac you can look in the "documents" folder and look for the file called "My Clippings.txt". That file will have any and every line of text you have highlighted in any of your books, and you can copy and paste out of there.

My 2nd from last paragraph should read: "Thes...

2011-12-24T23:26:49.481-06:00

My 2nd from last paragraph should read: "These are men who can stand up to the 'Poisoning the Well' charge of being Fundamentalist's or those who hold to 'Fundamentalism'

Daniel, fair enough. So it seems you would agree t...

2011-12-24T23:18:03.851-06:00

Daniel, fair enough. So it seems you would agree that the real issue for Christians in this discussion is, "Does the Bible limit us to the young-earth view?" Not, "Is the scientific evidence for an old earth incontrovertible?"

John, I appreciate your expression of commitment t...

2011-12-24T22:29:46.722-06:00

John,
I appreciate your expression of commitment to the text. If I was convinced that Scripture taught a young creation I too would reject any interpretation of evidence to the contrary. However, since I am not convinced that Scripture teaches a young creation, or any age for that matter, and my limited understanding of science seems to suggest that such inquiries are continually changing and endlessly speculative, it seems to me that God has yet deemed it necessary to reveal to us, either through special or general revelation, the age of creation. However, from your reading of the text, I believe your attitude to be sound.

Hi Adam, Arguments against 'deception' by...

2011-12-24T12:09:53.276-06:00

Hi Adam,

Arguments against 'deception' by those who hold to a Mature Earth YEC position are hard to find. I am interested in reading them.

Here is a interesting discussion (in the comments) amongst Christians. One an OEC, several Mature Creation YEC's (one name that you'll recognize) and at least one AIG type YEC. I don't know that this goes far enough to answer your question though. But, I'm going to purchase Poythress' book because I'm very interested in reading the argument.

There are confessionally orthodox men who defend an AIG type of YEC. Douglas Kelly does in CREATION AND CHANGE. In chapters 7 (The Age of the World and the Speed of Light) & 8 (The Age of the World and Physical Chronometers) Kelly does a good job of defending the science while backing it up in the notes. In chapter 7 he specifically deals with decay of the rate of the speed of light, and also, the movement of time and the effect of gravity on that.

Also, DID GOD CREATE IN 6 DAYS?, edited by Joey Pipa and David Hall is an excellent read.

These are men who can stand up to the 'Poisoning the Well' charge of Fundamentalist.

&, please forgive me for asking an OT question here. Does the Kindle have the ability to copy text to a note pad and then later upload this to a PC?

Thanks
James Caldwell

Could the second commenter please let us know who ...

2011-12-23T16:48:55.724-06:00

Could the second commenter please let us know who you are? It is our normal policy to not have anonymous comments here at Bring the Books. Thanks.

I don't think we need to be shy about the fact...

2011-12-23T16:35:51.558-06:00

I don't think we need to be shy about the fact that we view Scripture as offering a clearer interpretation of nature than vice versa. It seems that as you suggest, John, there is nothing deceptive about the starlight problem if scientists don't understand every variable. It is fair to say that they do not, and so in the end, we must believe that we are seeing things as they are, and as they were, but that perhaps at some time around the creation event the laws of physics did not operate as uniformly as they do today. I have always been somewhat put off by this line of thinking, but it is necessary, I think, if we are to acknowledge the continued validity of scientific study.

I am not convinced that the deception argument sta...

2011-12-23T16:12:46.547-06:00

I am not convinced that the deception argument stands up to inspection. It only is valid if the rate of the passage of time is constant throughout all time and space. That is a huge assumption.

At any rate, if we are convinced that Scripture teaches a young universe, then all scientific or evidential arguments to the contrary must be viewed as subservient to Biblical teaching. We may not understand how Jesus could change water into wine in an instant. We may be able to prove scientifically that this is impossible. But still the Bible teaches us that He did indeed perform that miracle. I view the Biblical teaching about creation in that way.

You're right, Daniel. I haven't worked th...

2011-12-23T11:42:28.219-06:00

You're right, Daniel. I haven't worked through that part of the problem yet. I started to write something and ended up composing an entirely anti-scientific argument that in some measure defeated my point that Christianity can be pro-miracle and pro-science.

I am not sure if you have actually answered the De...

2011-12-23T07:21:57.728-06:00

I am not sure if you have actually answered the Deception argument. From my reading of your post, you have provided an argument for the epistemic justification of starlight appearing old but not being such, however I do not see how that would effect the argument that starlight would still be an act of deception in general revelation. Having an argument for a belief's epistemic validity does not answer per se against those arguments against such a belief.

I've recently (last three years or so) moved f...

2011-12-22T19:45:48.640-06:00

I've recently (last three years or so) moved from theistic evolution, to open to ID, to recent human (as differentiated from biological categories) to becoming more and more open to the possibility of YEC being true...so you are not alone in your progression that seems to move against the typical shift...I'm glad to hear that I'm not alone in it either!

Adam, glad to hear you're a young-earther now....

2011-12-22T14:09:32.216-06:00

Adam, glad to hear you're a young-earther now. It's not a salvation issue, but one's view of creation often does reflect a person's concept of the relationship between science and Scripture. For me, I had to choose between a view which was faithful to Scripture but was at odds with mainstream scientific thought, and a view which was the other way around. When I saw ithe issue in that light, the choice was easy.