Comments on Bring the Books: Becoming a Young-Earther After 12 Years

Andrew, how does a framework proponent like yourse...

2011-12-31T09:17:51.349-06:00

Andrew, how does a framework proponent like yourself deal with Exodus 20:9-11?

9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.

God essentially is telling us that the reason we should work six days and rest one day is because that's the pattern He set for us, in the creation week. God could have done it all in an instant, or He could have done it over billions of years. But He chose to create in six days and rest one, to show us the pattern for work.

Thanks for sharing, I recently went the other way ...

2011-12-29T23:38:47.651-06:00

Thanks for sharing, I recently went the other way (more framework view) after many years of being a YEC. I found the text reads best when its not 6/24 and thought the text would make more sense to someone in the ANE.

One thing I appreciate about the young-earth view ...

2011-12-22T14:33:26.728-06:00

One thing I appreciate about the young-earth view is its ability to explain the presence of death, suffering, and bloodshed in our world today. When my children see a dead animal, I can tell them, "This is not the way God created our world in the beginning. Death came along as a result of sin entering our world. When we see dead animals like this one, it is a reminder to us of what sin does: it brings death." If I believed the earth was billions of years old, I would have to say to my children, "Yes, I know it's upsetting to see this dead animal, but we have to understand that that's the way God made our world. When God called his creation 'very good,' already there was physical death present. That's just how God chose to create." For me, the world makes a lot more sense, knowing that death in all its forms is a result of sin.

I found your discussion of how you moved from one ...

2011-12-14T10:32:18.265-06:00

I found your discussion of how you moved from one view --- old earth and evolutionary processes --- to new earth and Biblical creation --- most fascinating and I agree with your conclusion. I think most persons who choose to reject the Biblical account do so on the basis on pseudo-intellectual pride. They think that to believe something so simplistic, yet profound, that in the beginning, ex nihilo, God created the heavens and the earth is to be less than truly intellectual and sophisticated. And yet, Hebrews 11 tells us that even the ancients understood that creation had to be believed by faith, not by the knowledge base of mankind!
I've been reading Ann Coulter's Godless: The Church of Liberalism and her two chapters on science and evolution, Ch. 6 and 7, are well worth considering in this context. There is plenty of evidence to refute the claims of evolutionists and old earth positions. The option that is truly left is young earth, divine creator as the only tenable explanation for all the beauty, complexity, marvel and glory that shines through the created order (Romans 1:18-20).

& Adam, Thanks for your hard work here at ...

2011-12-09T07:20:34.900-06:00
& Adam,

Thanks for your hard work here at Bring the Books

You are a machine :)

"My exposure to young-earth ministries since ...

2011-12-09T06:49:03.327-06:00
"My exposure to young-earth ministries since meeting Hovind's has not faired much better. Earlier this year our church hosted a speaking engagement with Jonathan Sarfati which I found to be far less than compelling. Like most creationist ministries, Sarfati's ministry seemed to be more focused on showing old-earth Christians that they were wrong than with meeting evolutionists in battle. This is still my perception of most creationist-focused ministries."

Adam, like you I am currently more interested in reading authors who deal with evolution than those who deal with old earth Chritians like Ross, even though I found Sarfati's REFUTING COMPROMISE, to be a very good book.

Sarfati has put some good work in on the evolution battle though. REFUTING EVOLUTION and THE GREATEST HOAX ON EARTH: REFUTING DAWKINS ON EVOLUTION are both books worth of the time spent in them. I recently gave our niece, who wants to be a marine biologist, a copy of REFUTING EVOLUTION with the promise of more more to read (Behe and others) if she is interested, which she seems very much to be.

I found James Jordan's CREATION IN 6 DAYS very helpful in dealing with Framework and Kline's idea that Gen 1 and 2 are contradictory. John Byl welcomes Jordan's book here (in the comments): http://bylogos.blogspot.com/2010/01/genesis-dr-scott-clark.html

I removed my tags and put the books in capitals because I couldn't find my open tag

Thanks
James Caldwell

It is great to see how God is working with you. He...

2011-12-04T13:56:21.970-06:00
It is great to see how God is working with you.
Heb 4:12 and Rom 11:33-34

I was Framework for a little while. What brought m...

2011-12-03T14:53:51.740-06:00
I was Framework for a little while. What brought me back to literal consecutive 24-hour days was realizing ch.1 and ch.2 were not necessarily contradictory (i.e., 2:5-7 can be explained in ways other than Kline's).

Probably my number 1 peeve with young-earth literalists though, is that almost without fail they seem to assume that real scientists are idiots and that they themselves know more about science than the pros.

I've been reading the book "Why Evolution is True" by atheist Jerry Coyne, and by golly, there are plenty of arguments. That's assuming he's presenting evidence and its implications honestly though, which I'm not in much of a position to judge. My take, basically, is that he is construing evidence on naturalistic pre-suppositions, there is far more data that we do not have than we do have, and that I don't have to have all the answers. I believe when all is said and done, there will be no discrepancy between the witness of nature and the witness of the word.